Yii: a high-performance framework inheriting Prado

[jake]

*Download NetBeans 6.5 RC2 right now to give it another shot*

[FragMaster B]

I've got to echo Jake here. I've been really impressed with Eclipse, but a buddy at work convinced me to give NetBeans a try and WOW. Definitely worth a look.

[Usahara]

Hi all! I've just looked at Yii and have played with it. It's perfomance is really great! But I have some kind of trouble - I've defined the DB connection to MySQL, DB charset is utf-8 and the pages of application in utf8 too. I store in db some japanese text and loaded from db and displayed on page it looks like "??" - is it possible to define utf-8 in db connection string in Yii, like the same in Prado, or may be some other solution?

[Qiang]

Yes, the latest check-in allows to you set charset like you do in Prado. Please post your questions on Yii forum. Thanks.

[Skylanzer]

When Im read the last post.. I see that Im not alone of Prado lover, and glad to know this fact

After a long time not touch any PHP/PRADO or any script matter,now Im currently on work for my final assignment for graduiting from university and I use Prado for it. its juz need 2 week for me to make (and PHP of course) from zero (without any experience) to hero and success make community site like multiply/myspace/friendster. Wow.. Its easier than I though before! Any thing I want to add, edit, delete, manage, any part in website, database, feature, anything, its can done easil, and juz use notepad in scripting (its the reason for me hard to manage the layout of mywebsite ) Im not upload my site on internet yet, so I dont know about the performance in speed

Im havent try yii yet.. but, after Im finished my final assignment  perfectly, I want to try yii..

Wel.. Im juz want to say.. thanks for Prado and dev team who bring a great framework ever (in my experience) !
I will try to parcitipating in Prado dev and I hope I have enough capability skill to do this (because Im still a newbie in this matter )

Btw.. I want to ask some question. When its talk about performance, what about a securty ? plain php its fastest than use framework, like rabol say, <?php echo "hello world" ?> and Im definitely sure its will absolutely fastest when compare "hello world" use any PHP framework, but is give a feedback in security. like LFI and RFI who hack site who use a plain php if the programmer a little bit missy in scripting. As I know, like site encrypt in 128bit for security reason, its will be much slowest than normal site. So.. how about the security in site who build use Prado or Yii? Sorry about my dummies question. Because Im have non experience in web developer and juz afraid if my site will be hacked, I have read in quickstart about it, but doesnt found any like LFI, RFI.

Ty

[andyknownasabu]

I would really like to know the reason for the secrecy - I searched for "PHP frameworks" on google, found a website providing comparisons of different frameworks, found yii and recognised in the Google SVN frontend that the comitter has the same name as for PRADO... Why didn't you tell about your plans?

[andyknownasabu]

... and my 2c concerning the rest of the discussion:
I really hope you will never regret of having decided "against" PRADO and for (also in my opinion) "just another" MVC framework. Honestly, given the huge number of MVC frameworks available and the long time of work and experience achieved by their authors during their development: Do you really think you can do better than everybody else? And even if you are able to do so (which I'd really be happy about, I like your work and I like to be surprised) I doubt if Yii can still stand out among all the others. I don't think Yii will be a masterstroke, actually it can't be - not because I don't think you all are very good programmers but because there is not much left to win in the competitive field of "traditional" MVC frameworks to attract more than just a reasonable amount of users (at least not at the moment, who knows, maybe in the future). This comes to my personal opinion that MVC is not the last word on the subject.

PRADO is a _unique_ framework exactly because of it's event-driven approach. This makes it different from 99% of all PHP frameworks available and thus promises for the opportunity to continue doing something _new_ and exciting also in the future. I experienced myself the problems you mentioned and I agree that these problems need to be solved for PRADO to be appropriate also for large-scale web applications. In my opinion, however, it would be more valuable to put all the efforts into this instead of only following well-known paths. Maybe the speed issues can only be reduced but not solved at the moment but why don't you think this may become possible in a couple of months, with a new PHP version or by offering/using an open-source PHP compiler (e.g. http://www.phpcompiler.org/) for those who need high-performance applications?

To all the others: Instead of complaining and crying either
- take over the development from Qiang, i.e. start to contribute to PRADO, become core developers and fill the gaps
or
- register papestry.org (in the style of Tapestry) and fork and continue to develop former PRADO.

Particularly if you or your company have already spent quite some money for it. This is the strength of open source: if there are people interested in a piece of software and believe it does something for the good they themselves have the power to keep it alive and make it even more successful.

PS: Please don't forget to answer my previous post on the secrecy ;-)

[notzippy]

hi

The obvious reason for not saying anything is that there was nothing to say - the developers simply decided to design a new framework focused more on speed which has its roots in prado. This framework is not in direct competition with prado - like you said prado is unique not only in its event design but also in its modular component design.

There is already a strong external group of developers that are applying patches to the core and Qiang is still adding new functionality so as far as jumping ship that really does not make sense.

nz

[rpaulpen]

I really am struggling with Yii vs Prado.  I love Prado and I hate the thought of learning another framework.  Then again, Yii seems interesting so I've had a look at it.

Of all the frameworks out there, the reason I chose Prado was because of it's unique way of providing a event driven type environment.  I thought the natural evolution would be a great WYSIWYG IDE that used the Prado framework.  When Codegear came out with their PHP ide, it was pretty exciting.  After digging into it for a while, it wasn't so much.  It would of been great if they used the Prado framework.

The evolution of PHP has come a long way, especially with all the frameworks... to the point where a hobbyist, like myself, can turn out some profitable sites. But, when I see how easy and powerful the .NET environment is, especially with Visual Studio, it almost makes me want to give up my mac and linux boxes and go back to windows.  I'm not there yet!

I guess the point I'm getting to is that Prado was the first framework that took a step towards the ASP.NET type environment.  It laid the foundation and I figured it was just a matter of time before someone released an IDE that would challenge MS's Web Developer environment.  It would take the web development world by storm.  But, it doesn't look like it's happening.

When you look at .NET and, especially Adobe Flex, it's amazing where the technology is going.  It seems that the PHP experts are spending their time trying to make faster and more efficient frameworks while the MS and Adobe folks are revolutionizing WEB development.  In my opinion, they are diverging paths.

I understand there are many PHP purists out there and rightly so.  I'm not one of them .  I chose to learn PHP because it is open source and your typical hobbyist can set up a development and production environment quite easily and inexpensively with a LAMP environment.  Combine this with a framework like Prado, it makes development a pleasure.  Take it to the next level and give us a WYSIWYG IDE, and it would be heaven. 

The performance issues with Prado, well I haven't been fortunate enough to have a site receiving 50 hits per second to comment on it.  I remember seeing a  link:

http://www.eioba.com/a77342/prado_performance_tuning_for_high_traffic_web_applications

where it seems to address any performance issues for high traffic sites.  If in fact these performance issues can be corrected, then I don't understand why we need a faster framework.  I would think it would make more sense to work on a development environment that challenges ASP.NET and Web Developer, some kind of compiler that translates the bloated development environment into efficient PHP code.  Isn't  this what MS is doing with ASP.NET?  If this was available, I think it would quickly become the PHP development environment of choice.  Technically possible?  No idea. 

Lastly, I am a receiver.  I don't have the skills and probably never will, to be able to contribute code back to the community.  Besides answering some questions on forums and maybe writing some extensions, that's all I am capable of.  I mention this because, even though this post is not in in the most positive manner, I have the outmost respect and gratitude for the Prado development team and community.  I can't count how many times the community has had patience with me and helped me through problems.  Thank you!.  The thousands of hours that must of gone into Prado just boggles my mind, especially when it's released as open source.   The selfless attitude of this team just amazes me. 

Speaking of which, I imagine someone will reply to this post stating that "MS and Adobe generate tons of revenue therefore they can develop all these new tools.  The open source community is quite different".  I understand that.  But, I would easily pay for an environment as described above.  I imagine many PHP developers  would do the same.  If CodeGear did it right, I would probably be using it today and long forgotten about the few hundred dollars to buy it. 

Back to the Prado vs Yii question.  I don't know yet.  I am having a look at Yii and waiting for the tutorial to be released.  I might stick with Prado or use both.  Time will tell.

Regards,

R

 

 

   

[visavis]

Hi guys complained about the direction change from Prado to Yii, I think we must respect the choice of the team. Technologies changes fast nowadays (Even though Bill Gates insists on the Basic language, it's still abandoned today). As the owner and contributor worked on Prado for a long time, they were very very hard to make the final decision. I personally can understand Qiang's behavior of "hide the fact of Yii": as a developer when you want to break the bottleneck to try something new, you have to experiment it for some time without public discussions. Also, Qiang committed to continue supporting Prado and back port Yii's new things. This is an accountable behavior.

I think the discussion above will also give some lessons to Qiang: The back-compatibility is vital for the growth of a software  and its community. Anyway, this is not totally Qiang's fault, considering he was constrained from the beginning when honored by the Zend Contest, and nobody can be perfect in his insight to forsee system architecture flaws & long-term requirements.

[sonemonu]

PRADO is the best Framework in its world, will be Yii the best Framework in its world?

I also would prefer invest the time to improve PRADO, PRADO is unique in its world, and that is its main advantage over others (the PRADO's world is the most modern one).

Yii seems to be just one more framework

[maddin]

Is there anybody interested taking over prado? I don't believe, the core-developers are maintaining Yii and Prado, so my preference is to change to another framework, but investigate some time to port prado-specific stuff, like the control and page-idea, to that other framework. I have zend framework in my mind, because there is a big company behind it and so the core developers wouldn't just switch away from that. I'm thinking about creating much of the prado-webui-stuff in my diploma thesis for zend as a custom frontcontroller or like that.

Sorry for my english, i'm doing my best

[Carl]

Is there anybody interested taking over prado? I don't believe, the core-developers are maintaining Yii and Prado, so my preference is to change to another framework, but investigate some time to port prado-specific stuff, like the control and page-idea, to that other framework. I have zend framework in my mind, because there is a big company behind it and so the core developers wouldn't just switch away from that. I'm thinking about creating much of the prado-webui-stuff in my diploma thesis for zend as a custom frontcontroller or like that.

Sorry for my english, i'm doing my best

We are still developing Prado, and v3.1.4 will be released in January. v3.2 is on it's way, and will focus on performance. Implementation of 3.2 features have already started, for instance optional php configuration style (application.php instead of application.xml) for speed.

Of the active Prado devs, it is only Qiang that is writing code on Yii as well. The other ones are writing Prado code only.

[maddin]

I'm really glad to hear that Carl, that's great. So, maybe i got something wrong, sorry for that. Very nice prado is alive at all. Thank you for that.

[waylex]

For those who's unsure in their choice, here's a framework comparison chart between Prado and Yii.